questions by LUX
JUDE is relatively a new band from Lodz Polandwhich I had opportunity to see during my last easteuropean travel. Itwas a very strange coincidence to catch them playing live in Warsawwhere I've spend few hours. I've never heard them or about them beforebut the amazing live performance have left me astonished and confused.I had to ask about some aspects of the musical and visual output. Thisinterview was done by phone and mail. In my opinion quite a lot of interestingthings were said so it can be recomended for this issue of LUX. Therehave beeen a few small modification between the time of the conversationand the publication. Read
LUX: The first question is pretty obvious,no doubt that you have heard it many times before, let's begin withthe question about your band's name? It's kinda confusing this days...
I choose this name as a strong, powerful wordoverloaded by various meanings which in the place I live still conjuresradical opinions and actions. JUDE - Jew is a key word - slogan it ispresent almost ewerywhere, meaning for alien, evil, isolation and conspiracy.Used as an equivalent of greed and dishonesty. Generations who haven'thad any contact with jewish people are still thinking this way are stillusing those words. Our name isn't very original. Lodz and almost everycity in poland is full of wall inscriptions jude, stars of David. We'vegot two football clubs here and their supporters call each other jude-jew. it's the worst name for enemy here. You see jude raus on the walls,recently iI saw graffitis saying also punk jude, You get it everywhere.I go to school by tram and I see it. Want it or not- it's in your face,it attacks you from the walls and simply sink inside you. This nameis like an exorcism.
LUX: Where does it come from?
It exists in common consciousness, you hear iteveryday. I'm sure you know the slogan: "the pollacks suck it with theirmothers milk". Even Celine who was well known for his anti semitismdescribed antisemitism as catharsis, common rite practised as a curefor fears and frustrations by europeans during the ages. A rite unifyingthe masses against the stranger, the scapegoat. Rites of lynch. Look-in ancient Rome the Christians were accused of being a jewish conspiracysect. Like one needs god to fulfill its existence another needs a jewishworld conspiracy to explain all the questions all mechanisms runningthe world.
LUX: But what for ? Why are you speaking aboutall those things ? Where those interests come from ?
Actually in the whole world every day approx3000 people die in 30 wars. Daily circa 1500 persons commit suicide.It makes sense for us to think about. You may ask why people write booksabout war, why somebody read those books, why they are doing documetariesabout holocaust. You can tell: this is different they are scientistsand you are a punk singer. I have to say- this is made not for entertainingpeople perhaps this is another form of entertainment itself, right ?We exist inside. Even when everything around tells us to forget it fastor join the culture of hapiness. We live in the times of so called xgeneration. But we deal with it everyday. Nobody can rid me off my ownright to reflexion I live very near the borders of Lodz Ghetto, Jacekand Lukasz live inside its old territory. Those traces are present almosteverywhere, my friends in Lodz, Gdansk live in blocks of flats leftby German people. Many people are still using furniture, dishes leftby them. This is a fact and I suppose it isn't so unimportant. We can'tstep forward without any awarness., Its like a demonstration, certainkind of consciousness. This is real. We perform in Gdansk, Torun orWroclaw and we know that those cities had different names: Danzig, Thorn,Breslau, it doesn't end in this point and it had its consequences.
LUX: How do you express it ? Where you putthis conciousness ?
We try to show it in various different ways breakingthe rules of an obvious rock gig -we distribute flyers, posters, weshow videos concerning the past of those places. Performing in Gdanskfor example, before our set we have shown our homemade montage of oldarchive pictures showing Gdańsk (Danzig) in thirties, in the age ofThe Free City - Freie Stadt Danzig, it was touching to the majorityof the audience, many people were confused seeing our video montage-their downtown covered with nazi Standarten.
LUX: How does this problem look besides thehardcore punk scene, outside the underground ?
In the society large amounts of hypocrisy arestill present and incountable. Meanwhile in Germany people have triedto revindicate the contemporary history, here almost all powers go towash themselves from all responsabilty, try to make a clean image ofa heroic nation. Some of the facts tell otherwise. Some of polish peopleparticipated in the jewish holocaust, there were numerous acts of colaboration.Because of this it is never too much to say about, right ? Because ofthis never is too much to say about the polish involvment in holocaust,about the 1968 when the rest of survivors were legally evicted fromthis land. Now the number of publications and a free open discussionis larger but you can hear also a big yelling of race and faith defenders.Those nazis are hidden under the glossy lucre of catholic national religion.It is sick, and this country is still sick. I suppose the time to saywho is who is coming down. Nobody here wonders when they hear that thesociety we live in is full of violence. I see it every day. I keep myeyes open even in a literal sense. Life here is hard, there's no reasonto ignore it. We try to see it without any prejudices. We speak aboutthings experienced by us or about things which are close to us or arecoming here directly. OK perhaps this is not very friendly but who saysit has to be ? Who says it has to look this way ? Perhaps we are sayingnothing new and we are concentrated on the evil side but it concernsus and we refuse to be blind. JUDE had a bad message and the messengerwho carries bad news is always hated.
LUX: You've been accused of being a nazi band.Where it comes from ? How do you deal with those accusations ?
Yea there's a certain hype around us, or thousandsof gossips. People judge us before any kind of personal contact. Pointlessview. Those prejudices are so stupid, sometimes it's so hard to dealwith it. We use nazi visuals, graphics, films from that era. I thinkwe always put it in a right context. It's in your face, sometimes it'sbrutal, straight forward but no fiction in it. Some opinions concernour way of looking, they called our image totalitarian. I don't agree.We wear black, boots short hair, but is it nazi? It's rather punk. Idon't care. People always see what they want to see. So much of theseopinions are based on clichees. Nobody who had met us or had any contactwith us will agree to this bullshit. This is for real.
LUX: Do you have any problems with censorship?
Oficially there's no censorship in Poland anymore.But it is still present in various hidden forms. Some people are scaredof our name, logo, way of looking and so (is it all scary ?) We haven'thad not any particular pressure pressions but some persons tried tocancel our shows or to break them. We were accused of nihilism, fascism,pornography etc. I realise that some of our stuff can be controversialbut the interpretation depends on the audience. People always see whatthey want to see..
LUX: I'm sure you can agree that all whatyou are showing, your name, logo can be confusing. Me myself I haveheard such opinions.. Don't you think such things can attract some nazisto come at your gigs ?
No, definitely not. I don't agree. Nobody hasever seen a nazi at our gigs. They have no access to places where weusually play. Our name and our image outfit have nothing to do withit. Some days ago I was speaking with a friend of mine from Potsdam,he told me about bands from Germany who have names like BUCHENWALD orHITLER. I think it's stupid acording to fact that they play a sort ofmindless noise. We particularly didn't choose our name to get noticedlike a bunch of suckers who want to thrill some PC devotees. I thinkour name has a lot of sense and we didn't choose it without any reason.I'm a little bit tired having always to explain all these problems.I think all we say is clear enough. OK. it can be annoying or sarcasticin a certain way but I suppose punk is not only about being friendly,smiley and having good time together. This means escapism for me. Wehave to deal with it. To make it loud, true not repeating always thesame tunes and same slogans. All we try to do is to make it differentway. Why does it make such problem?
LUX: Don't you think somebody can see it tooextreme ?
No, I dont think so. Yes we have dead bodies,fascist, war on our videos etc but should we say: this is unfriendlyand disgusting and throw it out ? I always wonder why punk people makesuch problems? This way it become so narrow minded, full of cowardice.Where has free expression gone?
LUX: Are you totally against censorship? Whatabout rascist/fascist propaganda? I mention various opinions on that.
By any means nessary. Destroying and annoyingnazis in any possible way is an obligation today, also by refusing themtheir right to free speech, publishing etc. It is a must to deprivetheir right to present and show their views, I think they don`t haveany right to voice their filthy opinions. I don't care about the reasonsof libertarian people who argue against any censorship. In my own opinionthey are fucking blind. Some radical anarchists say- we have to permitthem to show their opinions and people to judge for themselves. DespiteI don`t hope that people here are smart enough to see through rhetoricand bullshit those fuckers are putting about I am for acting directlyusing any means possible.
LUX: Isn't a little bit ambigous ? Being punkand pro censorship?
You've said you suffer from some censorship butat the same moment you declare yourself as a defender of some of itsforms.
I'm so hateful that I think of all kinds of waragainst them, right ? Using all possible ways. Unleash them all, oneagainst another.
LUX: OK. Let me turn back to your band -howlong has JUDE been around for its present form? How the band came together?
We started to play in 93 but at the beginningsit looked so different it was a simple experimentation with very rawand crude instrumentation like oil drums, very simple eloectronics,tapes loops etc. Something very common for many beginners. Lots of improvisations,jamming etc. None of us are professional musicians, we all made it ourselveswithout any help from anybody. In fact we learn all the time. We alltreated this first period as a very important experience, very importantfor what we do today. Besides all of what we show on stage under thename JUDE we are working on other projects. For me this band is likea musical laboratory in a permanent evolution We act as a consolidatedgroup of individuals but we are not closed in what we do now. We didn'tattach some closed formula to our expression. All what we do is in kindof permanent evolution it is changing all the time as we do.
LUX: Which kind of people come to see youplaying in Poland ?
It depends on city and venue. We ty to play invarious different places. It's mostly punk/hardcore crowd but fortunatelynot only. Sometimes its such a bunch of artsy snobs, I like when theaudience is varied but mostly it is a crowd of various freaks. Whenwe were at an Amnesty International meeting we played next to an ethnogroup of people from north Africa but the audience didn't like our music.
LUX: Describe your obvious gig in Poland.
It's hard to tell we don't play very often -and each gig is different. We always try to have an impact on the placewhere we play. We try to avoid ordinary rock clubs. Usually they havea shitty design and are full of drinks and tobacco publicity. When wedo play in such places, we try to arrange the stage cover those publicityneons or banners. Our set needs some sort of environment. We had performancesin culture houses (It is sort of an ungdomshuset in northeuropean countries),warehouses, galeries. We played in an ancient synagogue, our first gigwas in an old residence of an XIX century capitalist, owner of a bigtextil enterprise in Lodz. Recently we did a gig in medieval castle.We feel good in such places.
LUX: Can you explain what your lyrics dealwith?
I use words in various languages, most of themare in English, now this is accesible to me It is the easiest way toexpress my... I can't say only anger or frustration. It is hard to explainthe meaning of all those shouted clauses. I claim all my impulses, instincts,daily experiences, also my own perception. Complexes. Consumption andexistence. Maximalizing it to heal and to cleanse.
LUX: How people react ? What is the response?
Sometimes this is very important, sometimes notbut believe me- our performance is an emotional discharge. When sourpour into my eyes I don't care if my lyrics offend anybody or if theyare too nihilistic. All I need then is one big constructive reload.One time we call for some sensual response another time we want somethingmore from the audience. All forms of interpretation ar equal.
LUX: Do you have any contact with the audience?
Yes I do. Of course there is a certain kind ofcommon relation. We are not closed. Playing we are absolutely concentratedon our thing. But everywhere we play I see people and I know who arein front of me. If we tried to avoid this contact we cannot performin public.
LUX:Tell me something about your local scene.If you take part of it ?
No doubt. It changes day by day. People comeand go, fortunately we have some wealthy and active people to whom punkstill means life. They are still here. There is also plenty of do -nothings like everywhere. Drugs are another big problem nowadays. Butthe state of independent, underground (I think those words means something)culture is not so weak. There is an excellent place to do gigs/performances/partieshere. The KLUB C4. I'm sure some people know HOMOMILITIA, TOXIC BONKERS,DISGUSTING LIES or SELF HATE, many individuals produce music alone likeSPEAR or UNION. Presently are various different kinds of radical sound.As JUDE we are part of this whole scene and we participate in some ofits activities, our involvement is not enormous. Now the band takesup most of our time. I stopped promoting WUNDERWAVE gigs in Lodz, manyyears I took part, cooperating with various individuals. I designedposters and flyers for punk shows in Lodz. I've made logos for HOMOMILITIAand TOXIC BONKERS etc. Now I make a new zine PLUS ULTRA, (my ZYGOMAfrom the eighties is over). I write articles for others zines I tryto do it as good as possible.
LUX: What is Lodz like?
Lodz is the city of textil industry, there areother factories too. In last few years many big enterprises owned bystate bankrupt, they were divided under various little companies. Todaysbig corporate business is also present. We are surrounded by industryzones. It have of course a common point with our music and all our wayof expression. Its impossible to be indiferent, insensible to this powerfulimpact. This influence is excellent.
LUX: How do you see the state of polish societyand social life in general ? What are your political views ?
All I see is power corruption and lies and besidesoff all -money, money of course.
LUX: What about the transformation ?
Those changes can be described by two words:americanisation and westernisation. Consumerism is a common cult withoutany exceptions, you are worth as much as what you can eat or consume,shopping as a final human expression. No need to describe it you haveit all seen on TV. It looks the same as in other east countries whonow try the best to be like the rest of the western world.
LUX: Do you want to say something more ?
Yes. I suppose this is important. Many peopleignore it. One of the most aberrated tendencies is a growing voice ofthe followers of those so called holocaust denial. The negation of Auschwitzand gas chambers, questioning of nazi genocide imported directly fromwestern right wing historians who spread their bullshit here. Withinpolish nationalist and nazis this holocaust revisonism become more andmore fashionable. Fucked up liars. I saw some echoes of this way ofthinking in western countries. Ignorance is bliss. Nobody who grew uphere including those neonazis who distribute this foreign bullsit herecan believe in shitty manipulation. You know what I mean ? This is pureantisemit propaganda trying to manipulate peoples wievs on contemporaryhistory. It is based on ignorance and lack of communicaton between peoplefrom west Europe and from here. It is also based on fear of truth. Whitewest Europeans who believe in certain values are scared to know thatthe same elevated western people did those kind of abomination sixtyyears ago here, not far from their civilised homeland. Personally, weare too close to those places, so many eyewitnesses are still alive.They can't fool us. Pity if they can do it to some people in the West.
LUX: What do you think about this punk renaissancenowadays ?
Sincerely, it dasn't affect me much. This socalled punk rock is nothing more than a nostalgy after seventies anda rock'n'roll but a little bit rougher. I can't feel such emotion forthings I haven't experienced. This is retro, backwards. I don't likesilly happy music at all. Even when those bands have something importantto say it is desactivated with their happiness. All, or almost all softmelodic pop punk bands suck hard.
LUX:Could you explain what industrial meansto you. Is JUDE often called industrial ?
We're called industrial and I have personallyanything against it. I carry a kind of emotion for this unimportantword. I like it. I have nothing to do with any kind of thechnophiliabut I never stop to enjoy the sound of sledgehammer. Today's industrialmusic became so fancy and fashionable. In my opinion its popularitynowadays is a simple boring fact within showbusiness. The majority ofthe bands are crap. The way they compose songs remind me of demos bylow quality toy syntethisers. It's crap with distorted vocals. One bignothing. For me true industrial bands also have tom have some brain.It's not all about loops, electronics and some noise.
LUX:Describe please some sources of inspirationfor your musical and ideological output ?
Those sources vary just from the closest environmentto all media mystification. We try to explore that, the world of massinformation, politics, history- this is very important for us. Todaythey become kind of a new artificial world. An industry producing itsown clones which are replaced by the new ones day by day. Our intentionis to mutate, reinterprate, and to confuse this network of weak parasites.
LUX:What about the music ?
I can remember times when we exploded listeningto RATTUS and others scandinavian bands. We liked DISORDER, BATTALIONOF SAINTS, CHAOS UK and DISCHARGE of course. Later it was CRASS, CONFLICT,I didn't know english and the majority of lyrics was not understandablefor me but their anarcho message was very close to our views at thattime. Now things from the past are still very attractive for me butJUDE plays punk AD 1999 and we don't look back for inspiration. Thereare still many good bands and it shouldn't let you think that punk isdead. Some of the estethics and some ways of expression are now weaker,and not destructive for rock business, they beacame safe, more accessiblethan any time before. It occurs permanently but punk is still a threatand challenge. Besides all esthetics it is an attitude, message andall this indigestible core. There`s still many awful and amazing punkunits like DYSTOPIA, DROPDEAD, HIS HERO IS GONE, ASSUCK, I can listmany more...
LUX:Is your music a type of a sonic instigationor provocation in any sense ?
Choosing this way to show things, to place ourselvesin that context of confrontation we were aware that it can be seen asprovocation. But for what ? Acts of abuse ? Aggression ? To think ?To hide or to fight back on the streets ? Its not a provocation forprovocation's sake. We are not revolution instigators in an ancientway. We show reality, we confront ourselves with this vision, imageryetc. We show facts, no fairytales or fiction. The interpretation isfree but nobody can accuse us of sort of fake imagination. We are tryingto give some way of seeing things, questioning man and world in generaland it has nothing to do with that fucking end of the millenium crap.Our music voices our opinion but as Burroughs said medium is the messageso our music carry a certain message itself.
LUX:Your lyrics are accused of having a negative,misanthropic and apocaliptic outlook on life and the world in general.
My lyrics are very close to this what we areshowing on our videos but its words are not literally the same as whatyou are watching on the screen. It is hard to say all those lettersand words are just the way to express my anger, colera, fury. It isshown in an extended context. Our spots are full of links to everydaysreality. The video has a great input on the audience and it is veryimportant in our pereformance. The pictures get the point across. Mostof the words are not understandible within all this noise and the visualsare our main communication. We show our own vision and we struggle infront of it.
LUX:It seems to be confusing to your audience,I mean your use of nazi or quasi nazi imagery? Where it comes from?And what for?
JUDE are widely using the total iconosphere ofnazi kunst, heroic socialist art etc. Monumental art. But also expressionismhad an great influence on us. Our imagery. We show various symbols,we use old, archival documents, pictures, we connect them together withactual contemporary materials. I was always affected by the relationsbetween mass ideology and fine arts. We try to deal with all those imagesand symbols without any prejudices or taboos. Our graphics, videos showviolence, atrocities but those images were always present in fine arts.Nobody question the dance macabre or ancient pictures of human vanityunder the latin phrase vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas sunt. You alsosee violence, suffering on the paintings showing the martyrdom of thesaints, prophets like St. Sebastian or John the Baptist and many others.I don't know if our thing came from the same tradition. Rather not,we do something different. We operate in a different context. But Ihave a great interest in this vein in arts.
LUX:When did you first get into punk ?
I don't even remember it exactly, it was circa81(I was 10) when i heard the word punk first time. I got involved laterbut immediately I started to listening to punk rock, collecting musicand hanging around with some people. Punk had a very bad reputationthan and was totally banned by almost everyone. This fact of coursehad a big impact on me. I knew nothing about it but I was touched andimmediately became a punk rocker with a chain, some funny badges, pinsand so on...
LUX:What bands would you cite as influences?
I've said about it, JUDE was influenced mainlyby reality. Another big impact comes from the seventies industrial-SPK, THROBBING GRISTLE, punk hardcore, CRASS, CONFLICT, DISCHARGE andvarious different sources. KILLING JOKE, SWANS, GODFLESH, BIG BLACKetc etc. Music and ideas are inseparable. When you listen to the musicyou can hear many more. I can talking about it for hours...
LUX:Describe your views on the technology.
Technology ? All is about technology now. Itsall around. In todays world technology is used to control and surveillance.In the cities there are more and more zones with permanent TV monitoring.It's the next sign to prove that we live in such illness. Sick times.In opposite, in the situation when more people have more hi tech knowledgethey can neutralizate the omnipotence and the monopol of the state andthe system (whatever it means now). Knowledge is the power.
LUX:Does todays world have its own propaganda?
Yes, of course todays version of thirtiees propagandais publicity, multimedia, advertising. Microsoft, Hollywood all sortsof impact on the people. The influence of politicians, heroes, moviestars is now replaced by mass culture icons. Rock`n`roll is also a sortof fascism as is big sport, olympics and other showbusiness areas withbig propaganda, leaders and mass rallies, shows etc. See THE RESIDENTSon Third Reich Rock`n`roll or CONSOLIDATED' Friendly Fascism. I thinkthey told something clever.
LUX:What is the meaning of the Ultimate Obediencetitle ? What your lyrics are speaking about ?
Ultimate Obedience was about flexing your neck,the great part of our lyrics dealt with this subject, the immortalityof the master/servant relation inside human life everythere and alldeformations which come together within. The power is not only an institutionor a pact based on centralization. Its presence is inevitable almosteverywhere, all human relations include this root. Want it or not. It'spermanently everywhere.
LUX:What do you think about drugs ? What areyour views on ?
All I can say here is fuck drugs. I hate dopeand especially its impact on people in punk hardcore community. I don'tmake a division between soft and hard drugs. I don't believe in thisbullshit and I suppose the soft weed is far more shitty than hard corrosiveamphetamines for example. Its popularity and easiness make people weak,filled with apathy and ignorance. Make them more and more selfish. Hatredfor lazy potheads, hatred for this so called drug culture. Could I ?
LUX:What is the meaning of 88 ? It appearedin your prints.
It's simple. This is the eighth letter of thealphabet. For todays nazis it means HH -Heil Hitler. We cite it andsay fuk you all or so. It shows clear the meaning of somebodys choice.Look, they cipher their message under certain numbers. They write 18and you read it: Adolf Hitler. Have you heard about the 14 words ? Fun,it means: "we must secure the existence of our race and a future forwhite children''. It reminds the ancient Kabalah. Todays nazis try tomake a friendly image of themselves. Pure propaganda. Read FriendlyFascism by Bertram Gross. It calls for a powerful response.
LUX:Before the interview you've told me aboutyour anti nazi actions... would you tell us about that ?
Ok. somebody may wonder but we were always involvedin anti nazi activity. We used to act directly, attack nazi meetings,disturb speeches of their leaders, had arguments on the streets, andwere also attacked. Sometimes we used violence etc and I have to say:it worked out here. Now it evolved, we do it in a different way. Weare present, we participate in all anti nazi demos here, print flyers,stickers etc. We distribute leaflets about nazi activity in our city.I wrote a report about nazi violence in Lodz, it was cited in a biglocal newspaper, we deal with mass media, recently we organised a pressconference concerning this problem in Lodz.
LUX:Tell me about JUDE future plans etc
I'm still not satisfied with what we are doing.The main problem is the lack of possibilities and places to play. Uselessto talk about. Despite all difficulties many people are afraid of our...I don't know exactly what. It seems to be based on certain rumors orso... We are open to all sorts of discussion and explanation we tryto show our music to more people. All opinions are welcome. Recentlywe have released a 10 inches split with DYSMORFOFOBIA from Warsaw anda new cassette under the title Sickness Bag, it appears now in LAGARTFACTORY (P.O. BOX 7, 20 - 530 LUBLIN, POLAND) I hope when you see usin the future you'll see different stuff. Progress. Work in progress.
LUX:Where do you get motivation to do allthis work?
Its hard to explain. Its an obligation. Necessity.Its the only way to erase all this madness. To throw away the filthof everyday life. It exorcise us. First of all it became our natureand main occupation.